Experimental Proto-Blog
Experimental Proto-Blog
Monday, September 08, 2003

More Regarding "Separation of Church and State"



I guess I'm not done stirring up controversy. :) Here is some more discussion on the current politics of "separation of church and state," which I also
discussed last time. Some of these comments are regarding a video that we recently watched in church, entitled America's Godly Heritage and hosted by David Barton. Although I will go on to criticize this video in some ways, let me say first that Mr. Barton had a number of worthwhile things to say. He pointed out the godly worldview of many of America's early political leaders; the positive correlation between religious values and a responsible, law-abiding citizenry; and the troubling fact that America has become less dependant on those values in recent decades.

Q: Was the First Amendment originally intended to prevent the government from endorsing Christianity?

A: Almost certainly not. Although many of the Founding Fathers were concerned about the government becoming entangled with any particular Christian denomination, their actions clearly demonstrate that they expected a general Christianity to be a common denominator in American discourse. One clue to the original meaning of the First Amendment is that, although the Constitution specifically demands that no religious test may be required for public office, this was clearly not considered an impediment to requiring officeholders to affirm a non-denominational statement of Christian faith (which they routinely were). In other words, "no religious test" meant that you couldn't be required to be Episcopalian or Methodist, but you could be expected to acknowledge Christianity. Also, as the AGH video points out, the public school reading curriculum was largely based on the Bible and other religious texts, and no one said anything in court about it for over 150 years. To claim that the Founding Fathers themselves anticipated anything like current disestablishment policy is certainly anachronistic.

Q: Does this mean that it's wrong to interpret the First Amendment in such a way today?

A: Not necessarily! In 1791, the Founding Fathers were justified in assuming that practically everyone participating in the American system of government was at least nominally a Christian (I don't know if there were Jews in any significant number, but they apparently were not given much thought in any case). For them, differences among Christian denominations were the full extent of religious diversity. This is no longer the case. I think a very strong argument can be made that the principle behind the First Amendment is more important than how it was originally translated into policy. And that original 1791 principle, I believe, is that the government may not take sides in the religious controversies that exist among its citizens. The religious pluralism of today's America is very different from the prevailing Christianity of 1791, and I think it is valid to say that the religious neutrality intended by the First Amendment can and should now be extended to include neutrality between Christianity and non-Christianity.

Q: Did the Supreme Court say that schoolchildren may not bow their heads to pray over their school lunches?

A: Absolutely not! The AGH video makes this allegation, but it is based on a false representation of a particular ruling (here is what Mr. Barton actually said). To find out the truth, I rode my bike over to the U of A Law Library and made a photocopy of the ruling myself (it's Reed v. Van Hoven, and the citation is 237 F.Supp. 48). For one thing, I found that the case was never argued before the Supreme Court at all (though Mr. Barton clearly implies otherwise), rather it was handed down by a single federal judge in Michigan and never applied anywhere in the U.S. other than his own jurisdiction. As for the decision itself, it is entirely concerned with forbidding the state government from directing the religious activities of students, and never says anything about restricting the students' right to Free Exercise of their religion on their own initiative. Although the ruling was flawed in some ways, it hardly set up the kind of anti-religious police state insinuated by Mr. Barton. In fact, the actual outcome of the case was that the judge denied an injunction requested by atheist parents against the school's accomodation of student prayer, but he also issued some guidelines to ensure that the school did not become too entangled in that prayer. It is true that one of these guidelines says that prayer before lunch should be limited to a "silent prayer during [a] moment of silence," but in the context of the ruling this is clearly opposing an organized recitation of a pre-lunch prayer, not students praying individually on their own initiative.

The fact is that U.S. courts have always recognized a very broad right of students to pray at school, and one should not believe scare tactics to the contrary.

Q: Did social indicators from murder to divorce to bad test scores all skyrocket because the courts "took prayer out of schools"?

A: This is another of Mr. Barton's allegations. He spends a good deal of time in the AGH video displaying graphs of various indicators of anti-social behavior, every one of which shows a dramatic turn for the worse at 1962 (the year in which the Supreme Court ruled that public schools may not lead their students in prayer). Even if you grant that he has accurately represented the data (and I have serious doubts about that), there is very little to support his assumption of a causal link between these social trends and the Supreme Court. Quite a number of things changed in this country during the 1950's and 1960's. Many of these changes had detrimental effects on our moral climate (while many others were positive), and very few of them had anything at all to do with the Court. In my opinion, the fundamental problem in this country is no different from that of any other time or place in history: that people refuse to allow the transforming work of God to take place in their lives. And that is something that can neither be done nor undone by laws.

In a similar vien, Mr. Barton displays some statistics showing the superior performance of private Christian schools when compared to public schools. He claims that this is because there is still prayer in the Christian schools, but in truth there are far more significant (and relevant) differences. Students in Christian schools are far more likely to have parents with a stable marriage who are involved in their lives (by far the best indicator of scholastic success), and also to be middle- to upper-class. Parents in these categories are not disproportionately generated by the Christian schools, rather they are disproportionately likely to send their children to Christian schools. Furthermore, private schools have the option of kicking out problem students, which has the unintended consequence of removing their lower test scores. If Mr. Barton really wants to find out the statistical effect of a school's Christian outlook, he should compare Christian schools to a segment of public school students who have a similar demographic makeup. But for whatever reason, he does not do this.

Q: Do people object to the Ten Commandments because they don't like to be told "Don't steal" and "Don't kill"?

A: I lost count of how many times Mr. Barton said this in the AGH video. The Ten Commandments are nothing more than an expression of universal moral law, the argument seems to go, and no one could object to them unless they object to the whole concept of morality. But in fact, there are a number of reasons why people might find the text of the Ten Commandments to be contrary to their beliefs, even if they agree that murder and theft are immoral. The most obvious of these are the first three commandments, which have nothing at all to do with universal moral law, but rather with worshipping the God of the Bible. The Sabbath commandment also speaks undeniably of a religious observance, one which in fact has been the cause for persecution of dissenters at many times in history (in Puritan Massachusetts, for example). I've even heard people say they object to the tenth commandment because it mentions a man's wife in the same context as his cattle, and they feel that this treats women as property. Whatever one thinks about that, I don't think it can be denied that the text of the Ten Commandments has clear religious content, and may be contrary to the beliefs of non-Christian (but nonetheless upstanding) American citizens.

Q: When the courts tell people like Roy Moore to remove religious displays, aren't they trampling on the First Amendment right to Free Exercise of religion?

A: Every American citizen has the right to Free Exercise of his religion. He can pray in public, display any religious text he likes, etc. This is a fundamental meaning of the First Amendment, and every court in the nation recognizes it. Controversy arises only when a person is arguably acting not as an individual but as a representative of the government. It is in these cases that the principle of "benevolent neutrality" becomes operative. This is not to say that you fall under a "gag order" when you get elected to office -- anyone who reads about politics knows that there is broad latitude for a public official to speak openly of religion -- but problems arise when it looks like the government is "endorsing" a particular religious belief.

Oftentimes it is not easy to make this determination. As many legal scholars have lamented, the rules on what is "endorsement" and what is not are rather fuzzy and ill-defined. And to be sure, there have been a number of cases in which I think the courts have gone too far in removing religious displays from public view. On the other hand, when you take a two-ton granite monument, inscribe it with a number of Bible passages, and display it in one of the most prominent locations in the state (the center of the rotunda of the state judicial building), I don't think there is much doubt that you are intending to use the government's stamp of approval to exalt specific religious beliefs. As a matter of fact, Judge Moore freely admits that this is his intention. There is no question of Roy Moore's right to say what he wants as an individual (which is certainly not being threatened), or even of the government's ability to acknowledge the religious values of citizens as long as it doesn't endorse them (for example, the courts have said that Moore's monument may be displayed in the judicial building, as long as it is not in such an exalted location). Rather, it is a question of the government representing all of its citizens, whether they are Christians or not.

Q: The Founding Fathers believed that Christianity was essential to the success of American democracy. Does this mean that the Christian religion ought to be endorsed in the law?

A: As the AGH video rightly points out, George Washington, John Adams, and many others of our founding leaders believed that American democracy would stand or fall with its citizens' attitude towards Christian morality. However, if you pay close attention to their words, they did not necessarily conclude that legal support for Christianity was a remedy for this concern. Adams, as quoted in the AGH video, said that "we have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion." This is absolutely true, and I certainly agree that the deterioration of religious and moral consensus in this country has contributed to a great deal of trouble (although skeptics may point out instances where religion itself becomes violent, I would argue that this is a separate problem). But is this deterioration actually due to decreased legal support for Christianity? Adams would say no, that the government becomes powerless to enforce morality if the people themselves have abandoned it. And here we have the root of the problem. If there is moral decay in this nation, it is because we, the Church of Christ, have failed to confront the materialism and self-centeredness of our society and to model and proclaim something better. It does no good to blame the problem on politicians, nor is political action alone going to ultimately solve anything. Rather, both the problem and the solution lie within the lives of individuals.

Of course Christians should be involved in politics. Like all American citizens, it is our civic duty to speak out for the causes that are important to us. But for one thing, we must always do it with the gentle and respectful spirit that God calls us to. And for another thing, I see little benefit in spending time advocating that the government pay greater "lip-service" to Christianity. A society may have laws that fulfill every wish of the antidisestablishmentarian, yet have a serious lack of righteousness among the population (many examples from the history of "Christendom" come to mind). On the other hand, a vibrant and transformative Christianity thrives in many parts of the world despite laws that are actually hostile to it (far worse than anything we deal with here). No law, however just, can change people's hearts. Rather, we must seek to change people's hearts so that they will desire more just laws.
 


Comments:


Religion and the Rule of Law
I would challenge you to present actual data implying a correlation between those that claim to be religious and law-abidingness. Where I look, I see MANY examples of people who consider themselves quite pious that show a blatant disregard for the rule of law. Some examples:

Roy Moore, a supreme court justice who doesn't think that higher courts' interpretation of laws apply to him.

Paul Hill, an anti-abortionist who saw fit to kill an abortion doctor.

John Geoghan, a former Catholic priest whose faith did not deter him from molesting little boys.

The September 11 hijackers, whose devout adherence to the Muslim faith inspired them to murder 3000 people.

Brian Mitchell, whose Mormon beliefs did not seem to affect his choice to kidnap 15-year old Elizabeth Smart and then proceed to do unspeakable things to her.

I don't claim that religious people are more violent or less law-abiding than areligious people. However, I think that an actual factual investigation in this matter might be more useful to discussion than the rosy make-believe world that some (i.e., the creator of your AGH video) think we inhabit.
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Posted Mon, 8 Sep 2003 5:25 PM MST by Jason Barnes (jbarnes@c3po.barnesos.net - http://c3po.barnesos.net/)
[150.135.108.116 / $Squawk.CommentPosterHostname]
 
God and Country"God and country" is a motto that has in the past come easily, some would say too easily, to almost all Americans. What are the cultural and political consequences when many more Americans, perhaps even a majority, come to the conclusion that the question is "God or country"?

Prof. Russell Hittinger of the Univ. of Tulsa has observed that the present American political system "has made what used to be the most loyal citizens--religious believers--enemies of the common good whenever their convictions touch upon public things." The American people are incorrigibly, however confusedly, religious.

Alexis de Tocqueville said religion is "the first political institution" of American democracy because it was through religion that Americans are schooled in morality, the rule of law, and the habits of public duty.
In the nineteenth century, Tocqueville observed, as you might say Jason, a "correlation between those that claim to be religious and law-abidingness." He saw common institutions of faith as the underlying glue that kept the democracy together. Without a common basis of values (usually disseminated through religious institutions), a democracy may not be able to stand.

I suspect that Christianity in America may be too weak to serve democracy today as Tocqueville thought it did in the early nineteenth century. Thus we have the world in which, as you observe Jason, "MANY examples of people who consider themselves quite pious that show a blatant disregard for the rule of law."

This is very sad, yes. But it may be that these are exceptions, and the great majority of the faithful in this country are law-abiding in large part because of their religious convictions. As the son of parents in law enforcement, and a Christian myself, I know that my faith plays a large part in my submission to the temporal authorities.
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Posted Tue, 9 Sep 2003 12:30 PM MST by Shane Ross ( - http://shaneross.blogspot.com)
[131.215.42.226 / dhcp-226.cds.caltech.edu]
 
Religion & Law II
Shane, my suspicion is (and I may very well be wrong) that you follow the vast majority of laws not because your priest or your beliefs tell you to do what you're told, but rather because the laws here are mostly based on what you were taught was moral anyway. How truly law-abiding are you? Do you speed? Do you download pirated music? Do you install pirated software? And, if not, why not? Is it because your preacher told you to do what congress says, or because you are a person who respects intellectual property rights and the creative work of others?

I suspect that if Muslim Sharia law were implimented in California (okay, this is a ridiculous example), you might very well violate those laws. Would that violate your faith?

Maybe I'm hopelessly Caltechized, but I guess at this point I base my behavior on whether or not it adversely affects others. For instance, the law in Texas might forbid sodomy, but as long as those involved aren't hurting other people, why should the government care? In this case, the law is unjust, and violating it is not immoral.

An aspect of religious morality is that it doesn't teach how to think, it teaches what to think (as I understand it, clearly I have no experience in the matter). As a result, once people that were brought up being told what was moral start to question those teachings, they have nothing to fall back on, and find someone else to tell them how to behave rather than reasoning it out for themselves.

I guess my point is that I don't think that morality and religion are as entangled as you might.
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Posted Tue, 9 Sep 2003 1:44 PM MST by Jason Barnes (jbarnes@c3po.barnesos.net - http://c3po.barnesos.net)
[150.135.108.116 / $Squawk.CommentPosterHostname]
 
Religion & Law IIII follow laws with varying degrees of zeal (and success). I am most zealous about those laws that seem reasonable to my mind, informed by both secular and religious reasoning. I am least zealous about laws that I think are unnecessary and silly, and some even violate the moral law and must in conscience be disobeyed. And in the middle, there are those laws whose point I can see (jay walking, speeding limits) but which I follow with slipshod success, showing blatant disrespect for them.


I wholeheartedly believe that religiously informed morality teaches one how to think, for at the heart of politics and morality is religion. I agree with Richard John Neuhaus when he says, "Politics is in largest part a function of culture; at the heart of culture is morality; and at the heart of morality are the ultimate truths we call religion."

To live in this world, one must believe in some kind of ultimate truths. Jason, in your note, you appealed to an ultimate principle of not adversely affecting others and not hurting other people. But that begs the question, What exactly hurts or adversely affects people? Which leads to the question of what is ultimately good or bad for a person, and this is question of ultimate truth, i.e., a religious question. What is the yardstick for right and wrong?

My faith may inform me that, e.g., incest is ultimately bad for a variety of reasons (above and beyond the "God doesn't like it" variety), and yet some elements within my culture may consider it okay. If they wanted to make it legal, they could appeal to their enjoyment of it, how it doesn't seem to hurt anyone, and perhaps the popularity of their cause. But I would be unconvinced, and would cast my vote accordingly.

You seem to praise the idea of people reasoning out for themselves what is right and wrong. But no one reasons in isolation, ex nihilo. We are surrounded with the ongoing conversation of our civilization, stretching back through the ages. The morality we have in the US today (if one can even speak of such a thing in the singular) is based on institutions, traditions, and in particular, on documents and teachings which serve as a common basis (Moses, Jesus, Aristotle, Jefferson, Camus, ...). These are the sorts of teachings I suppose your hypothetical moralist questions. But he is perfectly free to both question and fall back on them, which I do, and which I would assume you do. The conversation continues.


(A side note: the passage I quoted yesterday says that one should appeal to the governing authorities. But in a democracy, the sovereign is the people. Does one submit to the General Will of the people? If I found myself under the Muslim Sharia law, I would probably leave. But if I stayed, I would be bound to follow their laws out of my own conscience and because of that troubling passage above, which, as a believer, has a claim on how I live my life.)
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Posted Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:02 AM MST by Shane ( - http://shaneross.blogspot.com)
[66.215.93.232 / 66-215-93-232.pas-eres.charterpipeline.net]
 
Accountable to What Authority?In democracy political sovereignty is vested in the people. But a free people is free to acknowledge and hold itself accountable to a sovereignty higher than itself. In the Jacobin version of democracy, the state is assumed to embody what Rousseau called the General Will, beyond which there is no higher court of appeal. In the American founding, by way of dramatic contrast, it is recognized that society is prior to, and superior to, the state. The Declaration of Independence speaks of "Nature and Nature’s God," from whom all rights are derived and to whom the people constitute themselves as accountable. Although it is of much later provenance, the Pledge of Allegiance in the U.S. speaks of "one nation under God." That means, first of all, "under judgment"—the nation is answerable to a judgment higher than that of the state, higher than law, and higher even than the will of the people. The paradox, of course, is that only the will of the people can maintain the effective awareness of being under the judgment of a higher will. (God will attend to the reality of our being under judgment.)

In the actual decision–making of the American polity, this higher sovereignty is asserted obliquely rather than directly. That is to say, it depends upon the people continuing to acknowledge such a higher sovereignty. The point was made emphatically and repeatedly by the founders, including Thomas Jefferson. Matt, to complete your quote, John Adams put it this way: "We have no government armed with power capable of con tend ing with human passions un bri dled by morality and religion. Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other" (emphasis mine). The constitutional order is not "a machine that runs of itself." It must be sustained by a virtuous citizenry, and by popular religion that publicly appeals to a sovereignty that transcends the sovereignty of the state. These conditions cannot be guaranteed. That is why democracy is always a risky enterprise. That is why the founders called our constitutional order an "experiment." It is in the nature of experiments that they can succeed or they can fail, and they succeed only when we keep in mind the possibility of their failing.
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Posted Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:22 AM MST by Shane ( - http://shaneross.blogspot.com)
[66.215.93.232 / 66-215-93-232.pas-eres.charterpipeline.net]
 
Jason, you bring up several issues each worthy of a long discussion.

The first thing I want to address is that Christianity is not about "doing what you're told" -- or at least it shouldn't be. It is sadly true that many Christians in this country seem to prefer to have their thinking done for them by others, but I would argue that (like violence, prejudice, etc.) this is an innate product of human nature that gets mixed up with religion, rather than being caused by religion itself. I should blog about this sometime, but for now I would point to the history of 20th-century ideological dictatorships as proof that religion hardly has a monopoly on mindless lemmings. On the contrary, Christianity has a long tradition of deep and independent thinkers (including many of the fathers of modern science) who have found not only that their faith is not a hindrance to their intellectual pursuits, but that in fact it is the foundation.

Sorry, rabbit trail. My point is that I believe God wants us to think, and that Christian morality is not slavishly following commands but reasoning from principles. As Jesus famously argued in the Sermon on the Mount, even the Ten Commandments themselves are not what is important, but rather the principles behind them. That's not to say that we can just make it up for ourselves, as the Bible does have a number of do's and don't's that cannot be ignored. But I believe the important thing is understanding and applying the "spirit of the law" rather than woodenly following the "letter" and nothing more.

When it comes to keeping laws, you are largely right that the reason for a correlation between religion and law-keeping is that there is a general correspondence between the law and Judeo-Christian morality. But it is not bare law-keeping that really concerns me, it is general civil order. Assuming that we don't want the Gestapo, police action alone is incapable of enforcing lawful behavior; it is necessary to have a general agreement among society that abiding by the laws is important and right. In times past, this agreement was explicitly provided by Christian values. As Shane pointed out, this was something that people in de Tocqueville's day understood, not to mention Adams and Washington et al. Today that is breaking down, even among those who claim to be Christians (you mention pirated media, which I think is a classic example of this breakdown). How to fix it? My original point was that making the laws more "Christian" won't help much, rather we need to fix society.

A final point: You claim that morality can exist apart from religion. Obviously you are a good example of this. But where does your sense of morality ultimately come from? Is there any evolutionary principle that would favor behavior that "does not adversely affect" your competitors for survival? Could it be that the things you know in your heart to be "right" ultimately come from the same source as the things I believe to be "right," even though they were completely detached from "religion" (a term I don't like anyway) by the time they entered your consciousness? I realize this is a huge can of worms, and I hope we don't crash the comment server. :)
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Posted Thu, 11 Sep 2003 1:53 AM MST by Matt (matthewt@lpl.arizona.edu - )
[128.196.64.234 / pirl-du2.lpl.arizona.edu]
 
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